CIO Fixed Income Roundtable Podcast Series - 1Q26 update and outlook
The desk observes a significant shift in fixed income sentiment, emphasizing the market's rapid pivot from concerns over slower growth to increased inflation expectations. This change illustrates an evolving narrative that reflects the market's reaction to central bank policies and economic indicators. Per the full note source, interest rates have surged 40 to 50 basis points within just a few weeks, as traders recalibrate their expectations regarding future Federal Reserve rate hikes amidst a backdrop of persistent inflation. These dynamic movements could create headwinds for fixed income assets as yields rise and market participants reassess their positions.
What the desk is arguing
The desk believes that the swift adjustment in fixed income sentiment is indicative of broader market trends influencing interest rates and inflation views. As reported in the UBS Chief Investment Office Fixed Income Roundtable, interest rates increased notably following a period of speculation about rate cuts, highlighting this erratic movement. This could complicate the outlook for institutional traders navigating the fixed income landscape.
Market participants were previously pricing in around 60 basis points of cuts, reflecting a more optimistic growth outlook, which has now flipped as inflation concerns take precedence. The current market dynamics suggest that the Fed may continue to raise rates rather than cut them, corroborating the rapid adjustments captured in the UBS commentary.
Where it sits in our coverage
Our internal consensus target for the USD is set at 1.075, with a range reflecting expectations between 1.04 and 1.12. Specific firms such as:
The desk's stance aligns closely with the jpmorgan target as rates are positioned to rise, anticipating Fed actions influenced by inflationary pressures, which is consistent with our internal outlook but remains somewhat cautious against bofa's more conservative perspective...
How other firms see it
The prevailing sentiment among aligned firms suggests a consensus towards rising rates in response to inflation concerns. Notably, firms such as jpmorgan see potential upward adjustments. Conversely, bofa presents a more bearish outlook, expecting a slowdown in rate hikes.
Key indicators to monitor alongside this sentiment shift include the trajectory of the 10-year Treasury yield and any commentary from the Federal Reserve regarding future rate hikes, both of which will influence market assumptions significantly.
01Fixed income sentiment is shifting rapidly from concerns over slower growth to inflation fears.
02Recent increases in interest rates (40-50 basis points) suggest a reevaluation of Fed policy expectations.
03The market's reaction to inflation remains paramount in shaping future rate trajectories.
04Institutional traders should prepare for potential headwinds in fixed income assets due to rising yields.
Market implications
Traders should watch the movement of the 10-year Treasury yields closely as a direct indicator of market sentiment shifts. A sustained increase beyond recent levels could signal further Fed tightening, necessitating adjustments in positions. Monitoring inflation data and upcoming Fed communications will be critical in navigating this changing landscape.
Risks to this view
A reversal in this outlook could stem from unexpected economic indicators showing a significant drop in inflation, or hints from the Fed that rate hikes will pause. Any signs of weakening economic data could also lead to a reevaluation of the aggressive rate hike stance currently priced into the market.
ubs
We are back now to continue with our ongoing series, the Fixed Income Roundtable with the UBS Chief Investment Office Fixed Income Team. We are joined today by Sadiq Barkerji, Leti Zemaitis, Barry McElinden and Frank Saleo. Leading today's roundtable, our moderator, glad to welcome back Leslie Falconeo, Head of Taxable Fixed Income Strategy for the Americas.
So everyone, thank you for spending some time with our listeners today. Leslie, let me now turn it over to you to lead today's roundtable. Thank you, Dan.
I appreciate that. Well, these are very interesting times and I'm particularly excited about this roundtable just given that not only given what I think that's going on, but particularly such a quick shift in sentiment that we have witnessed within the fixed income market and as we know, the fixed income market likes to speculate and it is very forward looking, but when you think about where we were in February, the concerns the market was facing, whether it was AI disruption or credit, this slower growth mentality really started to seep into the marketplace. I mean, we ended February with a 10-year run at 395.
The market was pricing in 60 basis points of cuts. It had this terminal rate or what the market viewed as a neutral rate, if you will, at about a 292. Lo and behold, two and a half weeks later, we have interest rates up anywhere from 40 to 50 basis points.
We have the market putting that slower growth concern completely on the back burner and really focusing on inflation expectations, which has adjusted the market's expectation of what they believe the Fed will do. And what I mean by that is that not only have they taken out the cuts, but they actually were pricing in a hike. Now this kind of shift in sentiment, particularly over a very short period of time, can be headwinds for fixed income as we know, right?
It's not just about, you know, you've had interest rates rise 45 basis points. It's different if it rises 45 basis points over 12 months versus two and a half weeks. So that's why I think this is so great.
We have our experts and our specialists on today and I think the majority of this call or the goal of this call is to really guide our investors in terms of how these shifts have impacted certain sectors and where we think about these sectors might play out going forward. So first and foremost, I want to start off with Sudeep. Sudeep, thanks so much.
I know that you recently had the media market guide, which is always a really great publication, you know, for investors to read, but we have both been faced with, you know, a shift in market that is sometimes difficult to catch up. But I want to just get your take on what has the recent performance been in the media market, how has it shifted from February, March, if at all, and what are you thinking about for the next, say, quarter as we head into still quite a little bit of a volatile market? Sure.
Thanks, Leslie, for having me on the call. It's a really great discussion and a good opportunity to kind of lay out what the media market is doing for our clients and advisors. So let me just start with saying that, firstly, the broad theme of the catch-up trade that we highlighted in the 2026 outlook, despite all the shift narratives that you just outlined, that catch-up trade is still working.
It's still unchanged. Muni has underperformed, the background is Muni has underperformed other fixed income assets in 2025, significantly so. And we said that relative performance will improve in 2026.
So your rate, yes, Muni, the Muni index is posting a small negative total return, but they're still outperforming treasuries, corporates, and the U.S. broad market indices. So that outperformance is continuing, and we maintain our stance on that relative outperformance for the full year, and even more so if you take the tax exemption of the coupon income into consideration. And that is happening despite elevated supply trends continuing this year, and that was expected.
So on the issue of relative outperformance and supply being elevated, there is really no change despite these shifting narratives in the fixed income market. The other dynamic we did expect is some market weakness during periods when rate volatility meets weaker technicals, and that is exactly what we saw recently. By technicals, I mean demand-supply balance often measured in net supply numbers.
So even that has happened, we still remain a little cautious in the very near term, given still elevated rate volatility and still, and the tax season selling could intensify. So the latest data shows flows have moderated from the very strong levels that fueled the January effect, that has moderated, but the reinvestment demand is expected to pick up later in the spring. So if spring is here, summer cannot be far behind, and if that coincides with a more supportive rate environment, that would be a tailwind for the market.
On, as you mentioned, Leslie, treasury yields have moved fairly quickly and significantly over a short period of time. So for munis, with respect to carbon duration, over the last one month, yields have increased across the curve. But intermediates have been pressured a little more, and that's an interesting dynamic here.
That's a section of the curve that is really outperforming with the January effect, and a lot of the SME demand was going into those intermediate maturities. They got quite rich, and issuers took some advantage by shifting supply into that part of the curve. That coincided with rate volatility, and intermediates have underperformed.
Those pressures could remain elevated in the near term. We remain barbelled in the 1 to 3 and 12 to 17 years. We're still not targeting the very long end.
The curve remains very steep, especially in the 10 to 30 area. Long end yields now have edged towards the higher end of their three-year range, so opportunities for extended duration could arise in the near term if you see some more tax-related selling. On credit, fundamentals remain solid.
Seventy percent of the bonds in the index are rated AA and above. That's a 15-year high. That provides a ballast for countering any economic surprises to the downside.
Fortunately, munis are not directly impacted by AI disruption or private credit concerns as they really finance long-dated essential public infrastructure. But we do acknowledge some spread widening risks, especially if oil prices stay high and the narrative shifts to more of a growth concern story. But our expectation still remains trendline growth, which should be a supportive factor.
Lastly, and probably most importantly, tax equivalent yields at 6.3 percent for investors in the top federal tax bracket. That's very attractive at around the 85th percentile over the last 10 years. And that implies a 210 basis point and a 114 basis point DEY spread over treasuries and the investing-grade corporate index.
That spread to the IG index is almost double the 10-year average. So munis are cheap from that perspective. So in summary, I would say, given all the shifting narratives, the fast rise in treasury yields, relative outperformance should continue despite elevated supply.
Some near-term market weakness could persist if tax season selling intensifies. There is really more headroom in the muni market given higher starting yields and a steep curve. So from here, our view is fairly constructive.
Credit remains resilient, and tax equivalent yields are attractive, which should drive favorable total returns over the longer investment horizons. Let me stop there, Leslie. Yeah, thank you, Sudeep.
And I think just to your point, I mean, we have a situation now where all this volatility, as we talk about, can create opportunity. And as you just aptly pointed out, the tax equivalent yields, particularly in that long end for long-term investors, I think will continue to offer that opportunity that we look for. And now that we have volatility, I'm sure you'll be on top of finding that, continuously finding that relative value.
And with that said, I want to move over to Barry, who is our investment-grade. And, Barry, your sector has been always, at least in the spotlight for the past several months, simply because everyone is concerned about the supply. And we know that that was such the spotlight in February.
As I mentioned, part of this slower growth scenario that the market was pressing in was due to all of this AI disruption and supply that might come out due to CapEx. But overall, when we think about how investment credit is done, given the volatility, it's actually done okay. So how are you viewing, or have you shifted your view, given the February-March sort of shift in sentiment on investment-grade?
And how do you think this will perform over the next couple of months? Yeah, thanks, Leslie. So it's been really remarkable, though.
The IG index at the end of February was up 1.7%. And as it stands now, as of March 24th, it's down by 0.6%. So you've had over a 2% drawdown in March.
But it's been driven by the surge in Treasury yields, not so much credit spreads. So this year, we were looking for credit spreads to be widened, but only modestly, not too much. And I think that is what we have seen played out, actually, which is a bit remarkable given the list of concerns that the market has had to deal with, whether it be private credit headlines, increased issuance, tensions in the Middle East, and just general equity volatility.
So IG spreads are only about two basis points wider month-to-date to 88 basis points. On a year-to-date basis, they're about nine basis points wider. So it really hasn't been a story of rising credit risk premiums.
If you just look at IG credit spreads still generally conveying a benign market environment, nothing systemic in any way conveyed about those. Think about the 10-year history, historical average of IG spreads is 119 basis points. So you're still well below that.
So the value that's been maintained in IG is from the absolute yield that you get from the asset class. And that was our view headed into the year. It wasn't about the spread.
It was about the absolute yield. And now with Treasury yields having moved higher this month, we continue to reiterate that view. So you just think about where yields are for the IG index currently.
They have risen by 30 basis points this year to 5.1%. And if you break it down by shorter maturity increments, the one-to-10-year segment yield is 4.8%. The one-to-five year is 4.6%.
So you have quite attractive absolute yields, especially in that short end, that one-to-five-year area of the curve. So our recommendation is really intact, and that's investors with excess cash holding should consider locking in yields into these kind of medium, tenor IG bonds, especially at these higher 4% type yield levels for single As and 5% for triple Bs. You think about the yield pickup that's provided over three-month Treasury bills currently at 3.6%.
So that's quite attractive. And as you mentioned, we don't agree with the view that the market is pricing in hikes. In fact, we think the next Fed action is likely to be a cut.
So if anything, that Treasury bill yield, we think, is going to move lower, not higher. You mentioned supply has been very robust this year for investment-grade corporates. In fact, we're on pace now with gross issuance, about $600 billion year-to-date.
We could reach that $2 trillion market on a full-year basis, which would be a new record. I think if you dissect it down, though, coming into the year, we thought that the hyperscaler technology segment of the market, that issuance was going to be strong there. In fact, it has been.
We've seen the main U.S. hyperscalers have issued about $110 billion so far this year. $82 billion of that has been in the U.S. dollar market and $28 billion in other currencies. So they haven't necessarily just solely relied on the U.S. dollar market, which has been a positive development for investors being able to more readily digest what's come to market. Hyperscaler issuance has been strong, but investors weren't expecting this coming into the year.
I think two areas of new issuance that's actually surprised has been the banks. We thought that the U.S. banks would actually slow down a bit on their primary deals because the regulation incentivizes them to hold less long-term debt for resolution purposes. That has not played out year-to-date.
They've issued quite a bit. Year-to-date tally is about $65 billion in the U.S. dollar market. I think there are various reasons for that.
I won't get into the details, but that's been an area that's surprised to the upside in terms of new issue volume. And then the M&A category, too. Again, we thought this was going to be higher this year just because of the pipeline of deals that needed bond funding.
So far, if you tally up primary deals for M&A-related purposes, it's about $100 billion of that $600 billion. That included a $20 billion multi-tranch deal from Abbott Labs and a $16 billion multi-tranch deal from Honeywell Aerospace. Yes, primary market expectations are holding up the way we thought, but I think the composition is maybe a little bit different than what we expected.
To sum things up for investment-grade corporates, we do like the absolute yield that's attainable in the market. I think our view for yields, again, are going to be, I think, driven by the trajectory of what happens in U.S. government bonds, Treasuries, more so than spreads. We're still expecting generally range-bound credit spread environment, kind of around these 90 basis point level for the IG index.
So definitely find investment-grade corporates to be an appealing place to capture that high quality, kind of in that four- to seven-year part of the curve, where now you can get yields that are close to 5%. I could stop there, Leslie, and turn it back to you. Yeah, thanks, Bray.
That was a really great summation, and we're surprised as well. I think the M&A activity, and particularly the issuance and financials, are very strong points. One thing to note about things such as investment-grade, besides the compounding income and the higher quality, you can see the flows of the investment-grade have continued.
We've had some disparity maybe in the lower credit quality, and we'll talk about that a bit later. But we've had a pretty good consistent inflow with IG, and it remains an asset class that we think still has value, particularly given some of the volatility with the higher quality. But again, you need to pick your points on the curve and also be opportunistic about taking advantage when we have a shift in performance, Bray, like you had mentioned.
So thanks very much. Now, Frank, I want to go over to you in preferreds, because you, like yourself, I feel as we look at rates going down and up, there's been a bit of volatility within that preferred sector, as one might anticipate, given the volatility that we've seen within rates, within equity. It's expected to see this kind of volatility within the preferred market.
But I want to sort of get your take on how you view preferreds in today's environment. Are you surprised by some of the changes that have occurred, and how do you see it performing over the next couple months? Yeah, thanks, Leslie.
For sure, performance-wise, investors have been on a rollercoaster ride of concerns, as you mentioned. The latest source of worry, of course, has been the Iranian war that began at the start of the month and the related spike in oil prices and the economic inflationary ramifications of that. But before that, as you mentioned, investors were focused on potential BDC and private credit losses, AI disruption, as you mentioned, and also concerns around U.S. fiscal deficits and debt sustainability.
So all of these concerns collectively have had ripple effects across all financial markets, all asset classes and sectors, both equity and fixed income. And most high-quality fixed income sectors are down so far in March by about 2%, give or take. Barry just mentioned IG, but most high-quality fixed income sectors are down and predominantly driven by the backup in treasury yields.
When it comes to preferreds, the $25 part preferreds, the retail preferreds, which started the year strong out of the gate, they have now given up all of their year-to-date gains. They're posting a marginal loss for the year now. Specifically, retail preferreds were one of the top-performing sectors in January.
They had a one-month gain of 1.9%, which is very strong for one month. But they are so far one of the worst performers in March. They're down by almost 3%, one of the worst performers, especially relative to high-quality fixed income, as I mentioned, which is down around 2%, give or take.
And it underscores a topic that I've been harping on really for the past several months, and that is that the $25 par retail preferred sector is a fundamentally different sector than it was just five years ago. It's a much more volatile sector. It's a much more interest-rate-sensitive sector and more sensitive to equity volatility.
And we see it again with performance so far in just the first three months of the year. And it's especially evident when we compare the performance of the $25 par preferreds to that of the $1,000 par preferreds. Year-to-date, both retail and institutional preferreds are posting a marginal loss, but those $25 par retail preferreds had a much more volatile pathway to where we are today.
We had that 1% gain in January and now nearly a 3% loss in March. Meanwhile, the $1,000 pars had a smaller gain in January, and so far they've had a smaller loss in March. Bottom line, less volatility from the institutional $1,000 par preferreds.
And at times, the $1,000 par preferreds with their variable-rate coupons can be a good hedge against volatility, especially during periods of extreme uncertainty like we're experiencing now. And this is the topic of the latest monthly update to the Preferred Securities Top Picks report, which I just published. The latest edition is entitled Are You Diversified?
And in the latest report, I highlight that the low-rate backdrop back in 2020 and 2021 and the related refinancing boom during that period fundamentally altered the character of retail preferreds. Many issuers back then refinanced and replaced their older preferreds with newer fixed coupons set at historic lows, and that made the group much more sensitive to interest rates, and it added to the group's already higher correlation to the stock market versus the institutional preferreds. So for retail preferreds, if we look at the standard deviation of monthly returns over the past five years, it jumped to 3.7% from 1.4% sequentially in the prior five-year period.
For institutional preferreds, volatility showed a smaller increase, 2% from 1.2%. So putting it all together, I continue to recommend that investors incorporate an allocation to $1,000 par preferred recommendations. $1,000 par preferreds can be a powerful diversifier for your fixed income allocation, but not all preferred funds, not all preferred ETFs invest in this space. So consider individual security recommendations as well, individual $1,000 par preferred security recommendations.
But listen, it's important to note investors should also maintain a meaningful exposure to the $25 par sector as well because the high-quality and long-duration bias of the $25 par retail preferred should perform well if we slip into a sustained flight-to-quality scenario, if we have that type of a tail risk situation unfolding. In terms of outlook, retail preferreds, as you mentioned, very highly volatile this month in particular. They will continue to face headwinds as long as economic recession risks and possible growth scare pressures stocks and as long as inflation risks and higher rates pressure bonds.
If stocks and bonds are both under pressure, preferreds will get dragged down too because they're tied to both. On the other hand, we could see a rally once it becomes clear that the Middle East situation is resolving and the oil markets are normalizing. From a valuation perspective, clearly valuation has improved.
You're 100% right, Leslie, we've got to be opportunistic about this and look for these tactical opportunities during these periods of heightened volatility. Retail preferred yields have risen more than the yields on 5- and 10-year treasuries, so those yield premiums are now at or above the 5-year median, so investors should also look to opportunistically add to exposure with individual $25 par recommendations. You can find yields of 6% or more from these high-quality preferreds or the preferreds from these high-quality issuers.
In many cases, they're also tax-advantaged because the coupons are considered QDI-eligible. If the crisis is resolved soon and if we see credit spreads broadly begin to tighten again and, importantly, if we begin to see Fed cuts get priced back in, as you mentioned at the outset, we've kind of flip-flopped and did a 180 and started pricing in hikes. But if we get Fed cuts priced back into the market, we're set up for a strong rebound from retail preferreds.
So I'd recommend that investors check out the preferred securities top picks report for our latest top pick list of both $25 par and $1,000 par preferred recommendations and specific ideas. And, Leslie, I'll turn it back over to you. Okay, Frank, thanks so much.
I appreciate that. And you're right. I mean, listen, the correlations that we've seen with the preferred market, when you have this kind of volatility, can sometimes break down.
And this is what can happen when there's uncertainty, when there's volatility, and volatility within the Treasury market and or the equity market that sometimes those sectors that do have embedded interest rate risk and yields go down just are not quite performing as well. I think simply because the uncertainty and volatility is so high. But as you mentioned, as growth slows, as, by the way, we're not looking for a recession.
We are looking for growth to slow in the second half of the year, which is why we have these cuts priced in, our expectation of two cuts. It could be a good sector to earn some incremental income and get the benefit of that interest rate component. So thanks very much.
And with that said, Leti, you're going to round that up, and we're going to end with you on a great – an important topic in the sense of what we're seeing in the high-yield loan market. You wrote the lead for the last 6th Income Strategist. You did a great job.
So I'm really curious of what your thoughts are there, what you think – has anything changed from the, as I mentioned, the February AI disruption going to slow growth story, which has now switched to, oh my gosh, now we have inflation story in the month of March. How do you sort of see this performance shifting, and what's your outlook for the next couple months? Thank you.
Yeah, so my two sectors actually have flipped up. So I'll start with high-yield. So when we were having all the AI disruption, high-yield was basically resilient due to its low exposure to the software sector, which is only 4%.
So for year to date of February, we were up in high-yield. It was up 65 basis points. And then come March, once we had the Iran conflict, we saw negative performance within high-yield.
Now, it's been mostly tied to rates as spreads have barely moved. If you look at for the month of March, spreads have only widened 9 bits, which is nothing. So when we – and the duration within high-yield is very short, 3 years.
So when we look at the 2- to 3-year treasury yields go up within the last few weeks 50 bits, which is significant, that's really what drew the negative performance in high-yield. It's not a fundamental high-yield asset class. The credit metrics are very strong.
We did see issuance very subdued this month. It was doing really well in January and February. But we only saw $15 billion.
And just this week, we had one issuer next to our issue for $5 billion. So that's – we have – it's been more risk-off due to all the uncertainty. When we look within high-yield, as expected, the higher quality has performed better.
The double Bs and single Bs, triple Cs is actually down 1.8 for the month. Within sectors, the top performing, no surprise, is energy. Energy is up 2.4.
And this is all just, you know, with the fears that if we have higher oil prices, we'll have higher inflation and lower our growth. So that's the high-yield story. With that, we have seen yields much higher.
They're at 7.5. They went down after Trump spoke. And there's talks that they might be improving with the escalation news.
We did see yields drop down to 7.4. But it's still very attractive, you know, for high-yield valuations. Also, we sort of go down 2 points.
We were at $98 prior to the Iran crisis. Now we're at $96. All of this doesn't really change our view on high-yield.
We still feel it's a good story. We expect default rates are at 1%. We're thinking maybe they may touch 2%.
So, fundamentally, we don't have any change in our views. We remain neutral. We just have to be more cautious.
It's going to be more opportunistic, as, you know, previous speakers have spoken. Due to the volatility, it may be a good time to start taking a look at high-yield, especially at this high, you know, go to the high, you know, high-yield. Because if this does become a shorter conflict and short-lived, we will see those yields come down.
So, therefore, once the Treasuries come down, we will see the yields at high-yield come down. So that would be, you know, a very opportunistic point. Now, for loans, the beginning of the year, they were actually negative.
So, when we look at January, February, they were down 1%. Due to the AI disruption concerns, and if you want to, you know, read further about that, please read our Fixed Income Strategist Lead. We go into a lot of detail about how it could impact the credit markets.
So that became a risk-off sentiment. We saw within the software sector, it was down 7% within loans. Loans have a higher software exposure than high-yield to 14%.
So, you know, it did really impact them. We saw spreads widening about 60 bps within the overall loan index. But then, now that, you know, all the focus is on Iran, people were thinking maybe they were a little bit, it was too much, you know, the negative sentiment on loans.
We have seen prices starting to stabilize. It has a very attractive yield of 8.5%. We don't see fundamentals deteriorating in the loan sector.
Our forecast still remains the same as the beginning of the year, 3% to 5%. If we do get the lower Fed cuts, that's going to help the issuers. And since it's a floating rate, their interest coverage will go down.
So that will be beneficial for them. We're expecting a default rate between 3% to 4%. We're at 3.4% right now.
We don't expect and anticipate any rise in defaults. What will be vulnerable and sensitive to AI disruption is software sector. Yes, that's the one.
We do have a dispersion within sectors, and that's the one that, you know, is to watch, is how the software sector is in loans. But also issuance was much stronger in January for loans. But then, you know, it's been a little bit lighter February and March.
But overall, you know, we have a view of neutral on both sectors. Like I mentioned, you know, they flip-flopped as of late. But we don't see fundamentals are strong.
You know, we're still having issuance spreads. Not crazy. It's still, you know, very minimal, the spread widening that we're seeing.
It's mostly what we're seeing is rates has been impacting them. And, of course, the IRAC conflict is a risk-off sentiment that's hurting high yields. Back to you, Leslie.
Thanks, Lillie. I appreciate that. And, you know, one of the things about high yield as well, and this goes for IG too, I mean, they're both at, what, nine months high in spread and yield.
And as you mentioned, you know, the carry component to drive the total return with high yield is obviously very important. I mean, we are positioned more for the higher quality. We want to wait to see whether or not when this conflict does get resolved or even just to see the pace of escalation come down, whether or not the market shifts back to AI disruption.
But overall, you know, we still like high quality. But I think that there's opportunities or will be opportunities going forward in the more credit-embedded sectors such as, you know, high yield and loans. So thank you so much for listening.
This is where we stand today. And there is a lot going on. I really appreciate all of the commentary from our sector specialists.
I think it's great. And hopefully this acts as a good guide in terms of diversifying your portfolio, not having too much concentration of particular risk, and just having a view or a feeling about what our outlook is for the next several months. I mean, we're in an environment where sentiment is shifting quickly.
You know, we don't want to make short-term moves. We are in these investments for we stay invested for the longer term. You know, volatility does create opportunity and will react on that opportunity.
But overall, short-term reactions to these kind of sentiment shifts is not a strategy that we would advise. So thanks very much, everyone, for tuning in. And we'll see you in a bit.
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